At the time of this interview, Varun worked as a Managing Director for Investment Banking at Goldman Sachs. Prior, Varun worked as a Trader for Louis Dreyfus, a Manager at ICICI Bank, and an Executive Director of Investment Banking at JP Morgan.

Where do you work (or where have you worked) and what is (or was) your position? Tell us a little bit about your career path or intended career path.

I work at Goldman Sachs in Investment Banking; I am a Managing Director. I did my MBA from UVA, Darden Business school. I did both undergrad and graduate studies in India, after which I worked for a few years, before coming to the U.S. and UVA.

I did my summer internship in investment banking at J.P. Morgan coming out of Darden back in 2006, joined them as a full-time associate in 2007, was there for 11 years, and moved to Goldman Sachs four years ago. My focus throughout my career has been on debt capital markets. I lead our media and telecom leveraged finance practice.

What does (or did) your position entail? What, essentially, do you do on a daily basis?

As is very typical for investment banking (and hopefully this helps most of the students who are looking at this), investment banking largely has three components. So, I’ll try to keep it simple for people who don’t know what investment banking is.

One part of it is M&A advisory. You’re primarily trying to advise a company on strategic and financial matters: what sources of cash and capital they have access to, how to sell their company or an asset within their company, how to structure buying a company (and even what assets to buy), shareholder advisory and activism. So that’s the advisory part of it.

The second bucket is raising capital. Whether it is in the form of equity or debt, you are trying to solve for getting the company or financial sponsors cash to do things. Companies need capital for refinancing existing debt that is maturing, making capital expenditures, acquisitions, paying dividends etc. The financial sponsors need to raise capital for acquiring companies (e.g., LBOs), etc. The first time a company raises equity via a listing on an exchange is an IPO, which Im sure most people have heard of. The process to issue debt for the first time has many similar steps to an IPO including working to prepare the company and frame the story to investors.

The third thing I would say is, when you think about investment banking in general, there are some now unique solutions you provide. For example, derivative services, transaction banking services – which means making global payments more seamless, liability management which means helping a company buy back debt or equity in a cheaper, smarter form. There is a lot more to this bucket than I’ve listed.

What I do is a bit of all three buckets for anything related to debt. I am in leveraged finance, which basically means I advise companies that are non-investment grade, which includes strong companies which have relatively more debt, or are in growth phase or just been acquired by financial sponsors. It’s a huge pool of companies like T-Mobile, Twitter. At some point, not in distant past, Netflix and Dell were also non-investment grade.

I work with companies in the TMT space, which is Media, Telecom, and Technology space. So I advise CEOs and CFOs on how to structure debt and distill key selling points, and then we help those companies, who are looking to raise capital, by connecting them with debt investors looking to invest capital. We’ll help the company present their business/financial trajectory to investors, after which we negotiate with the investor base on behalf of the company to achieve the best terms possible.

We also underwrite debt, which basically means we make a commitment to the sponsor or company that we will raise debt capital at certain pre-agreed terms thereby capping the market risk for any M&A, including LBO, or other financings for companies and sponsors by using banks own balance sheet.

What did you study during your time at UVA?

It was a full two-year MBA program. In my MBA, my concentration was finance; it was largely finance and a little bit of general management and a little bit of marketing. But it was all encompassed as part of the MBA program. I lived in Charlottesville for two years and loved it. We still go back couple of times a year.

When and how did you know you were interested in pursuing a career in investment banking?

Great question. So when I did my undergrad and graduate studies in India, I was working there as a commodities trader, and somebody said, “hey why don’t you join us and become a corporate banker”. And so I did. I was working at one of the big banks in India at the time, and I soon realized that corporate banking jobs are very interesting, but I wanted to get into more of an advisory role and become a consultant to the company on its capital structure. For that, I needed to move into investment banking. That’s why I joined Darden.

Now of course if you think about Darden or UVA or the Darden business school MBA, you will realize that it is not truly a finance school. Darden prides itself on being a more general management school, and now it’s becoming more of a consulting school so now if you look at the population that goes into consulting and general management, it far exceeds the population going into finance. But what I’d heard about the case study method, what I’d heard about small classes, what I’d heard about the relationship that Darden has with Wall Street, those were the reasons why I chose Darden.

Are there any particular internship positions you would recommend as good preparation for a career as an investment banker?

I think the interesting thing about investment banking internships is, the sooner you take a summer internship, the better as those most of the times leads into a summer internship for the following year and then into a full-time job. If you want to do investment banking, there are avenues open to you to start early, maybe in your sophomore year as a summer intern, then junior year, and then come back full-time. But if your question is specific, like hey if I don’t know if I want to do investment banking but I want to do something else or I want to keep my doors open to get into investment banking, then I do think there are a lot of jobs. At the end of the day, one part of investment banking is finance knowledge but other part of it, depending on what your interests are, can be in product knowledge, as well as in industry knowledge. So if you want to try something of that sort and get into investment banking later, that’d be better. I tend to see people who know they want to get into investment banking try to do it sooner rather than later. But there is no hard and fast rule like you need to do x, y, and z to get there. At the core of investment banking is sound judgement and problem-solving skills, so in recent years many investment banks have recruited from various specialties (not just finance or economics) e.g. math, philosophy, history, etc. so you don’t necessarily need to start in investment banking to be successful.

I do think, by the way, from a technical skills perspective, I have always found UVA kids to be at par with best of the best in terms of technical skills. Because you are selected amongst best-of-the-best to get into UVA, you already have that threshold intelligence that is needed to do this job. And the rest of the technical skills are taught to you in the classrooms by one of the best professors. So I don’t think you need a specific technical knowledge or a book knowledge to be in investment banking. I think you get that from attending the right classes, and you have the opportunity to attend a bunch of classes – like you have a lot of finance classes and econ classes to be able to do it. And two years later, if you want to be hardcore, you can always join McIntire. You don’t even need to join McIntire, and by the way there are a lot of UVA students who are in investment banking who didn’t go to McIntire, who stayed in the College of Arts and Sciences.

Do you recommend attending graduate school? If you did attend graduate school, was it a useful experience? If you did not, do you wish you had?

I’ll give you a very cliché answer: it’s a matter of personal choice. I can tell you the reason why I did it but everyone needs to find their own reason. Part of it is I had a necessity to do it because I was based in India, and while I was working at a large Indian commercial bank, it was still an Indian bank in India. And it was more than 15 years ago! If I wanted to be in Wall Street back then, there was not a natural progression to get there from that position. It would have taken years to get there and so Darden MBA significantly accelerated my path.

And so the benefit of graduate school in that sense, just to elaborate more, is if you are a career switcher, if you want to switch your career (you’ve done something, now you want to switch your career; if you were an investment banker, and now you want to be a consultant or you want to join general management or you want to go into private equity or you want to go into venture capital), graduate school allows you an opportunity to switch your career and get there. But that’s a need kind of thing, not a want kind of thing. Like, you need to go there if you want to switch your career so you go to graduate school and it helps you.

But putting my specific circumstance aside, I do think graduate school expands your horizon from multiple perspectives.

Firstly, you get to learn a range of topics such as marketing, of course finance, but also math, organizational behavior, business strategy, accounting, and consulting. You see multiple aspects of doing business and that opens your horizon.

The second way it opens your horizon, and I think Darden does a really great job of that, is it brings in a very diverse class – not diversity only with respect to somebody’s religion, gender, race or geography, but also diversity of thoughts, diversity of their jobs, diversity of where they are in career cycle, and everything else. And when you put all those people together in a classroom, what you find is those classroom discussions become really, helpful for you, to understand somebody else’s perspective.

Growing up in India, I thought I was good in math, so my problem was somebody gives me a question and I immediately go and answer it; I thought there was only one way to answer it and there was always one right answer. Darden taught me lot of times, there is not one right answer. You’ll find a lot of people who come from a very different background, maybe teachers for example. They approach the same problem in different way, and still make get to the same answer, which was good to see, because that, opens your mind to interesting thoughts, perspectives, and ideas.

What parts of the investment banking industry do you see as being trend-setters and what parts do you see as being increasingly less relevant? In other words, what trends have you observed?

Wow, you did throw a curveball. You kind of threw soft ones until now and threw a curveball. Look, I’ll say, if I am in your spot or if I am in a position where students are at UVA trying to determine whether the industry is going to survive in five, ten years or not, I think it’s a very hard judgement for anybody to make today. There will always be legacy businesses and there will always be disruptors. It has happened time and again. Think about time when people used magnetic tape and walkmans and when music became digital, suddenly no one was using those things anymore. But that does not mean that the music producers did not have anything because the medium changed; Lot oof music companies upgraded their technology to be with the times and be relevant. So, I do think that any field will always have disruptors but there will always be a way of evolving ourselves to find our career goals. Some of the fields will wither away. But, at end of the day, people will retool themselves and find a way forward.

Right now it’s easy to say, I want to be in tech industry as its cutting-edge and as Technology as that will disrupt everything. But tech is such a broad industry. There are multiple aspects of tech that are there; there are people in hardware, there are people in software, people are in fintech, people are in internet digital media. Good thing is that all are adding value to the broader ecosystem. Same way with investment banking. Yes, investment banking will probably not stay in the current shape or form five, ten years down the line. It will go through an evolution, but that evolution does not mean that you will be left without a job. I think that evolution means that you will have a place, it’ll just look slightly different than what it does today.

Given that these careers are often very demanding, what is lifestyle like? How do you balance personal and professional life?

Great question, and that’s an ongoing debate always. Look, I would say that investment banking has done a phenomenal job on work-life balance compared to 20 years ago. There is a lot more work-life balance, there is a lot more ability for people who have personal time, there are banks like ours which say you can’t work starting from Friday night till Sunday morning. More often than not, you have protected weekends. And senior people generally tend to be cautious of not giving anybody work over the weekend unless it is super urgent. That movement and progression has created a lot of positive.

But I would say that investment banking jobs tend to be demanding, but any job can be demanding. In other jobs, it may come in a longer sine curve or a longer cycle. For investment banking jobs it is very quick. And the reason for that is we try to do a lot more with less time. The transactions that our clients are doing are game-changing transactions for them. So, for example, if you want to raise equity, you want to raise debt, you want to sell your company, you want to buy a company – these are not everyday activities for a company but are very critical for every company. And to make them happen, the timeline tends to be compressed as there can be a lot of risk that can sweep in. Lot of times these transactions fallaway if the timeline is longer.

So, from that vantage point, yes, an investment banking job will be challenging, and it will always be challenging because we must meet tight timelines. Now people do a good job in these environments to still provide some work-life balance, and that balance will also improve as you become more experienced in your role (versus in your first year on the job, every process, system and direction is new).

Any other advice or recommendations?

My three recommendations for every person who is thinking about investment banking is:

First: Talk to as many people as you can in an investment bank before you make this a career. It helps in you getting recruited, of course, but it also helps you understand what the investment banking job entails. Getting surprised is never a good thing for any job.

Second: When you are meeting people in investment banks for interviews, you’re going to find a lot of questions are technical. I would recommend taking one of those breaking into Wall St courses on (for example, to learn valuation methods). Ultimately, what we (as interviewers) and you (as potential employees) should be trying to figure out is if the other person is a thoughtful person who is good to be around, and wont capitulate under pressure. So, dig into yourself to understand what the behavioral questions are and be prepared to answer them, as well as understand what you need from a banking perspective.

The third thing I will say is, make sure, when bank events come up on your campus, attend! See different banks, because that will also give you an idea of the personality of each and every bank, what they do, what they do differently, what they are doing great. Additionally, go attend career fairs for other industries so you have more comfort on which career and lifestyle path is right for you.

Currently, Ryan serves as an M&A Analyst at AlpineX Group but at the time of the interview he was an Investment Banking Analyst at Parella Weinberg Partners.

Where do you work (or where have you worked) and what is (or was) your position? Tell us a little bit about your career path or intended career path.

I currently work at Perella Weinberg Partners. We’re an independent advisory boutique investment bank, specifically focused on mergers and acquisitions and financial restructuring. I guess where we fall on the spectrum relative to other banks people think about – so you think of your large household name banks, Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley’s of the world, they kind of do everything, from financing to other products like M&A. We specifically focus on a couple specific products that don’t rely on your company having a large balance sheet.

And then, a little bit about my career path, I’ve kind of always done finance stuff. In college, I did a couple of other finance-type internships (one actually was with the place I currently work), but I also worked for a smaller financial restructuring shop actually with a UVA alum. And then even before that I was working for a small industrial-focused VC which actually kind of compared pretty well to what I’m doing now. Because I work in our industrials M&A team here, I focus a lot on businesses in the infrastructure space, chemicals, building products, and timber, paper, and packaging – things like that. And I guess going forward with my career path, I see myself staying in finance at least for a few more years. I think it’s a really great place to build skills, especially for a first job. Every day I feel like I’m learning something new, whether it’s in terms of actual things I’m doing on my job, whether it’s data analysis or having a better understanding of company business models or things like that. And you also, I think, which is a little underrated kind of, really just come up to speed with being an adult and handling this very professional life very quickly. I think there is a major dichotomy between where you are when you’re in college, where you have a lot of free time, to working a job where I feel like there is a lot of structure. But I think [it’s] in a good way, where you just become really good at how to manage being professional – I don’t think I really understood that until I started this job.

What does (or did) your position entail? What, essentially, do you do on a daily basis?

I think that’s actually a great question because I think people hear the words investment banking and [it’s] in some ways a really catch-all. I know people that are also technically in seats that are considered investment banking and we do incredibly, incredibly different things. So, I mentioned before, I am in our industrials M&A team, so we focus specifically on a handful of different verticals within industrials. If we’re working on something live, like a live deal, generally that’s a lot of process-oriented work. So I’ll be building financial models, I’ll be doing a bunch of different types of valuation methodologies. So there are, for example, a couple that are more intrinsic to the company itself. You might be building a discounted cash flow model or things where it’s like a relative valuation based on previous transactions that have been done in the industry or against peer companies that we’re trying to value. And I think a lot of the job too, especially when you’re not working on something that’s live, is a lot of business development and just trying to understand the space that you cover. So like we’ll do a lot of work where, I would argue, it’s more qualitative and we’re trying to build themes. So for example I work a lot with our partner focused on aerospace and defense and I am working on a couple of, I guess I would call them broad marketing materials, where he’ll go on a roadshow essentially – and working on, alright, here’s all the things going on in the defense and contracting space. And kind of trying to pair these in a way where we can drum up future business opportunities with these companies. So I think it’s multifaceted in the sense of like, yes when you are working on live things, it’s a little more what I think people think of when they think of investment banking, but also you’re supporting a future pipeline of work that you’re trying to acquire in the future as well.

What did you study during your time at UVA?

At UVA, I was an Econ and Comm major, so double. It’s actually funny, I actually didn’t come in thinking I was going to do finance. I mean, I did have an interest in that stuff from the get-go. But it was more like I came in thinking I was going to be an engineer, and I joined a couple of finance-related clubs, including the McIntire Investment Institute my first semester. So it’s definitely something where I was like, alright, I like finance and maybe it would be more of just a good skill to have. I think everyone can really benefit from having a good understanding of money and things of that nature. But then I actually (I forget exactly [when], it was during my second semester) just [realized] I was enjoying those things way more than I was enjoying my engineering classes. For better or for worse, I ended up switching gears. I was Econ and Comm, and I think for a lot of people that’s like, “oh, I’m a Comm student and I just finished some of my extra Econ classes”. I would definitely say I was an Econ student before I was a Comm student. Where my interests really [lay] within that spectrum was, I was super interested in economic history, so Mark Thomas was a professor I really liked to take classes with. And I think what finance really was was just a way to have a practical application of that, you know, to kind of turn it into something you could have as a career without sticking in more of an academia track, because that wasn’t something I really wanted to do.

When and how did you know you were interested in pursuing a career in investment banking?

I would say that even today I wouldn’t even be like, “oh investment banking is the thing forever for me”. I just think investment banking is really great because it’s an avenue where there is a very structured path for new grads to come into it. Actually some of my best friends from UVA are doing other things in the finance space, whether it be private equity, venture capital, or things like that. And not to say that those are not great opportunities to also learn, but I think I came in looking at this job as, okay, here’s a chance to learn a lot of stuff in a very short amount of time. And then if you like it you can of course stick with it – but I guess that was my basic premise. And investment banking is a way to get your foothold into the industry that has been pretty tried and true for the greater part of the last half of the century. So I think there is a value in there being a real track record of like, you know, we have a big cohort that comes in and we have a very structured way to teach you all these different skills. So I think that was something that really appealed to me. But I guess specifically when I decided I knew I wanted to do that [was] when I was working for the UVA alum who had this small restructuring shop in DC. I really enjoyed that experience. It was him and a couple other senior more operating guys. For anyone listening to this, [restructuring] is a lot of working with companies that are in stress, [but] not necessarily in a Chapter 11, which is when a company is actually bankrupt. In the case of what I was doing that summer, it actually was with a bankruptcy. So the senior guys were all really operational focused, so then me and the other one or two UVA interns really got to handle all of the financial modeling and things like that. But it was just really cool having that level of opportunity to run with these things that I felt like I had been learning in these clubs and these classes. That was really intellectually stimulating; it was challenging but also it felt really rewarding to do it.

How do you recommend preparing for a career in investment banking during your undergraduate years?

At its core, actually people at my job say this all the time, investment banking is kind of like an apprentice-based career, at least for the first couple of years. I mean again, there is so much nuance that it’s just impossible to replicate [it] in the classroom or in a college environment. I would say the best way to prepare yourself in really getting down to brass tacks, is definitely trying to take relevant finance courses, trying to get a basic handle on different valuation methodologies. Even joining clubs that are focused on investing and things like that; they’re not like-for-like I guess with investment banking, because with investment banking you kind of take a different seat relative to the investor. But just building up skill sets of understanding companies, understanding industries is super helpful. I think one of the things that people really don’t get about investment banking – well I guess people understand that there’s rigor – but the rigor isn’t necessarily the most rigorous thing. Like, I would say there [were] things I did in school that were more difficult. It’s that you are put on a ton of projects all at the same time and it’s like, hey, we need you to do this thing and yeah, maybe in like a vacuum, you could do it in eight hours – but we need you to do it in three hours because you have all these other things going on. So it’s like, being good at it and also being able to do it with a big time crunch. So getting a good handle on these things that are applicable skills beforehand will allow you to come off that curve quicker and be able to be more efficient sooner.

Are there any particular internship positions you would recommend as good preparation for a career as an investment banker?

I can totally plug the company I work for, Perella Weinberg Partners. I think I had a really good internship experience last summer. So again we’re a boutique investment bank. We actually used to do MBA recruiting but now it’s pretty much only through our undergraduate pipeline unless you’re a pretty senior hire. Mainly we do recruiting for sophomores in the spring for their junior summer internship, which would be, I guess, 15 months after that. I definitely think that we have a bunch of good opportunities across a bunch of different industries. You don’t just have to be industrials or something, we have a ton of different verticals, we also have a restructuring team. I also worked for a small VC shop, it’s called New Stack Ventures in Chicago. I kind of mentioned it in passing earlier; they’re focused on a bunch of cool cutting-edge space stuff. I actually got connected to them through an older UVA student who I worked with then. Just opportunities in places like those; you can even make connections yourself. I know so many people that actually kind of just cold-called places and found opportunities and I think that’s a super possible avenue as well.

Do you recommend attending graduate school? If you did attend graduate school, was it a useful experience? If you did not, do you wish you had?

I would say, to preface my answer to this, I think I am not the best person [to answer this]. I’m a few months out of school, so just contextualize [my response] that way. I think graduate school can definitely be useful. For me, I don’t plan on going to graduate school but that can totally change. I think it’s really good, especially if you plan on switching career paths, whether it’s within finance or to another industry. I think it’s a way to communicate interest, like, hey I’m very seriously considering doing something else, this is why I went back to school. I think if you’re going to do something in your direct field and your company doesn’t explicitly require it, I don’t know if it’s necessarily the most cost efficient thing – because you have to factor in both the cost of tuition and the opportunity cost of the money you would be making in industry. But that’s not to say that it’s something you shouldn’t do. I think there’s value in just attending school, because learning and gaining knowledge is just something that is such a fun experience. I think undergrad was one of the best parts of my life – and, of course, on the social side as well. But I mean just in the core part of why you’re there, seeing classes and being a student, I think that was such an interesting and unique part of the experience. So I think, definitely if you have an interest in it, yes go for it, but in terms of how it relates to investment banking, I don’t think you necessarily need it.

What parts of the investment banking industry do you see as being trend-setters and what parts do you see as being increasingly less relevant? In other words, what trends have you observed?

Actually I think you can kind of cut that along two different ways. The first thing that pops into my head is on an industry basis, like what parts of the broader economy do we see as growing because investment banking kind of touches everything. Because at its core what we do is life-changing transactions for companies. Well I mean I guess investment banking generally, whether it’s on the financing side or on buying or selling other companies, spinning off divisions of your company. Because of that, investment banking kind of plays everywhere. So something that I think is a major gigatrend almost, because it’s huge in the economy broadly, it will be huge in investment banking. It’s this major energy transition; you see everywhere the net-zero 2050, all these different Paris Accords, all these things. But you’re actually starting to see that more in practice in terms of all of these climate-focused companies, climate-focused funds, things of that nature. Actually two of the people I work with just recently left my team within the last month, both going to different climate funds, focusing only on the companies involved in this climate revolution. So that’s something I definitely see as trend-setting over the next 10, 20, and 30 years. And I guess, on the flip side, what in the broader economy is becoming redundant, becoming less relevant. I would say some of the more traditional energy, whether it be oil or things like that. I mean I don’t think tomorrow that stuff is going to be defunct, but I definitely see things like that, that are just becoming less important and we’re trying to shift away from them.

But also cutting across the second thing I mentioned, I think it’s also important to look at it on a function basis. So like, what in investment banking is becoming more relevant, becoming less relevant. I think [about] some of the more trading seats [which] some people bucket in investment banking, some people don’t. The salesman trading stuff I think is becoming more and more automated with everything in AI, things of that nature. Like for example one of my really close cousins is here in Manhattan as well and he works on a trading desk. He just literally tells me it seems like everyday that something else becomes automated, something else becomes more and more outside the hands of the actual traders themselves. He totally sees – and I also see this myself in general – kind of a lot of jobs that will just, not necessarily be irrelevant, but just won’t be something that a human functions.

Given that these careers are often very demanding, what is lifestyle like? How do you balance personal and professional life?

I’m not one to come up with a fake answer. There’s definitely a lot of truth to that I would definitely say. I definitely work a ton, just to be upfront. I think a lot of it, though, depends on what you care about. I forget who said this, but someone that I was reading about recently said something along the lines of, you want to orient your life so that everything feels like play, no matter what you’re doing. And I enjoy what I’m doing, so, despite it being a lot of time, I don’t feel trapped in it I think the way some people do. I guess on the point of balancing personal and professional life, I think you actively have to advocate for yourself; no one will advocate for you. People will try and squeeze every ounce of your day if you give them the opportunity to. So it’s being very clear about, hey, I’m taking time to do this. Or, on the weekends, trying to unplug whenever possible. Because if you give them an inch, they’ll take a mile – it’s kind of like in any job I think, you know, people are always looking for more. But, again, you’re a human being first and an investment banker second when you’re in this job. So it’s definitely super important to focus on doing those basic things that I know some people definitely neglect. I work with some people that very much forgo a lot of their sleep, and I’m not saying you need eight hours everyday necessarily, but [they will] consistently limit themselves to four or five hours which I just personally don’t think is sustainable.

Any other advice or recommendations?

On an advice point, I just went through all of that stuff. I guess it was more sophomore year, when I was actually recruiting for jobs like this because it’s so crazy early and accelerated. I would just say don’t get caught up in a lot of the comparison stuff. Like if you’re considering a career in investment banking, make sure you’re considering it because that’s something you’re actually interested in. I feel like some people I knew were only doing it because they saw their peers were doing it, or thought, hey, this seems like something that people respect or something – I don’t even know really how to put that into words. But like, not because you’re genuinely interested in it. So I would definitely, if you’re considering a career or you’ve already made that career choice, just make sure that the reason you’re orienting yourself to this career path is for the right reasons – because the second you step into the workplace and you’re actually doing this job in your everyday, the actual work itself is what you’re doing, not this gilded idea that you might have created in your mind when you’re in school. Because it’s really easy, you recruit for this stuff when you’re a sophomore or junior in college and it’s easy to be like, oh yeah I got this internship or I got this job, now I don’t need to worry for the rest of college, and you just keep it in the back of your mind for two years. But you [will] actually step into the job eventually, so definitely make sure that’s something you want.

And I would also say, on the recommendation side, this industry is very early. There’s this weird first mover advantage – both on the company’s side and on the student’s side. So if possible, if you do know that this is something you want to do, preparing yourself as early as possible will make your life as easy as possible to break in. Like I know so many people that were juniors and seniors who were like, maybe I’d be interested in doing investment banking, and realizing that all of the opportunities kind of had already shut for first opportunities straight out of school. So, if you are a freshman or you are a sophomore, and you know that this is something you are interested in, maybe try and read a little bit more and make sure you understand that a lot of recruiting for junior summer internships happens when you are in your sophomore spring. I love all of the Econ and the Comm career stuff, but it felt like when I was going through all that stuff freshman and sophomore year, I wasn’t getting the correct information on timelines, and it was all kind of outdated – because if you think like 10 years ago, a lot of the recruiting would happen later, like maybe Junior fall or Junior spring for Junior summer. And that’s just really not the case anymore. Maybe there’s one or two places that will do that, but by and large, it is earlier. So make sure you’re asking peers, you’re kind of plugging into older people that have recently gone through the process, like juniors or seniors or fresh grads because that’s where you’re going to get the most updated information on how these things work. And again, I don’t blame any of the career centers or anything. These things change year-to-year so much that it’s impossible for them to keep up without having conversations like we’re having right now. So I would definitely say leverage older students [and] fresh grads because those are the people that [are] going to be able to really have a great handle on what [you] actually need to do, and when are actually these actual timelines, [and how to] best put yourself in a position to get a job like this if that’s what you want.

At the time of this interview, Eliza worked as Assitant Editor, Money & Markets at Forbes. Since, Eliza has worked as a Senior Reporter and Editor for The Org and now works as a Lead Writer on Student Loans for NerdWallet.

Eliza’s Story: 

Eliza graduated from UVA in the spring of 2019. She majored in Economics and History. Her first introduction to business news was as an intern for Bloomberg. After graduation, she landed a job in Seattle at Pitchbook, a small tech news startup, where she covered startups, venture capital, private equity, and other finance topics. She has been working at Forbes for the past year as an Assistant Editor on the Money and Markets team. Her job duties involve editing content by freelance writers, fact checking stories for the magazine, and covering stories related to fintech and markets.  

Where do you see yourself going next? 

I’d like to stay in business news; it’s a cool place. With journalism in general, you get to talk to fascinating people; you get to talk to CEOs, investors, and entrepreneurs all the time. And as a journalist you get access to people like this that you wouldn’t normally get, and you’re always learning— every time I work on a story, I learn something new. 

What attracts you to journalism? 

I always really liked history and economics, which was why I ended up majoring in them, but I really enjoy writing and researching. I think econ gives you a good handling of quantitative and financial things that people respect. I was thinking of doing journalism for a while— I wrote for The Cav Daily— and then I decided to combine these two things: I’m really interested in business, but I didn’t see myself working in finance. So, that’s how I came to it— it’s a combination of a liberal arts degree, and something more financial or practical like econ. I’m doing a lot of creative things like writing, interviewing people all the time; I’m investigating things. But I’m not doing financial models all the time, I’m just talking about them. 

What is a day in the life like for you at Forbes? 

Every morning I’ll start by catching up on freelancer posts and editing them, and then I’ll work on longer-term projects. We do a lot of lists at Forbes like 30 under 30, and sometimes I’ll work on longer stories. As a younger reporter, I’ll sometimes be paired with a senior reporter on one of their big investigations, which can be really cool. And sometimes I’ll do a breaking news, or a quick story, if something comes up. I answer and send a lot of emails, and I interview people most days. 

Was there someone you interviewed that you thought was really interesting? 

Stephen Schwarzman, at my first job. He's the CEO of Blackstone, and he has something like $30B; so, that was a little intimidating. I interviewed the CEO of Playboy magazine; I interviewed a lot of startup CEOs. I interviewed a famous economist, Burton Malkiel. I remember I read his book in one of my econ classes. He wrote A Random Walk Down Wall Street. A few months ago, I interviewed UVA alum and Reddit founder Alexis Ohanian about his venture capital fund. It was a blast and he made a lot of UVA jokes.

Do you have any advice or tips for economics majors who want to pursue journalism? Is there anything you think they should be doing now? 

I would say if you want to cover anything like business or anything financial, it's awesome that you're studying econ. It equips you with the tools to ask the right questions. I think it's important to get started in journalism in general to have what are called clips, which are writing samples— ideally articles. Writing for The Cav Daily is an awesome way to do that. I would write a couple articles a week, and that was great experience and practice, or even if you have an internship where you can write and publish something online. 

I think asking a lot of questions is good. When I was trying to decide if business journalism was a good route for me, I went on LinkedIn and you can search alumni of your school, and you can search certain companies. I would sort it so I saw a UVA alum who worked at The Wall Street Journal, or who worked at Bloomberg or Forbes, and I would send them a message. People love to help young people who went to their school. I would ask them questions like 'what's a day in the life like?' Or 'what would you tell a younger version of yourself?' Just asking for career tips - those are great because it was a way to establish connections, and then they may remember you down the line, or you could reach out to them again later. 

Do you have any tips for conducting interviews? 

It’s definitely an art. Generally, you want to ask open-ended questions. Don't ask yes or no questions. Don't be afraid to ask the same question over again to get a better quote. Sometimes I'll talk to a financial expert that's talking in jargon the whole time because that's her life, and I'll ask 'Can you break that down in simple terms,' because you want to make things understandable to the reader, and it helps you learn too. And I always like to ask at the end of the interview, 'Is there any question you think I should've asked,' or 'Is there anything I should be paying attention to as a journalist?' I also work with great editors, and they’ll give me feedback and suggestions on interview questions. 

At the time of this interview, Elize worked as the Director of Brand and Marketing at Spire Collective. Since, she founded the brand Activate65, was an Account Director at Adlucent, a Brand Studio Manager at Journey Group, Inc., and had coached middle and high school volleyball.

How did you get into marketing?

I graduated in 2010 with an economics degree. I actually knew I was interested in marketing during undergrad, so that made my search a bit easier. My first job at a marketing agency happened to pair me up with a lot of travel clients, and I found that the travel industry really interested me. I got an opportunity to move in-house and lead a marketing program for a small travel site; I loved it but switched jobs because of COVID’s impact on the travel industry. I most recently worked for Spire Collective, which owns two e-commerce sites. There, I led the marketing efforts and was also in charge of branding, so my marketing career took a more creative direction. 
 

What might students do to gauge their interest in marketing?

I knew I wanted to do marketing because of an internship experience with a small consulting company in my hometown. The internship was very broad in scope, and I found that the marketing-related tasks I did were the most interesting. So, I chose to focus my job search on marketing, and I talked to people involved in marketing at job fairs to learn more about what they do day-to-day. My first job came from contacts that I made at a UVA career fair! 
 

What skills and experiences would be helpful in your field?

I’d like to emphasize soft skills, because communication and interpersonal skills are so important when it comes to getting along with clients and teams. To show this in interviews, tell stories and talk about your role---from a school, work, volunteer, or extracurricular experience---in certain situations and how you learned from that situation. One of the recruiters I talked to gave me a memorable framework for how to navigate interview questions that involved storytelling. It consisted of four things you should address for each question: what the situation was, what your intended tasks were, what actions you took to do your part, and what the results of those actions were. (This is called the STAR technique.) I recommend searching for behavioral interview sample questions online and practicing them ahead of time.
 

What can students do right now to bolster their job search?

When you find a job opportunity that catches your eye, make sure to tailor your resume to the job that you are applying for. Read the company's values, mission statement, and job description and highlight requirements that mirror skills you have. Then, find a way to work some of that wording into your resume or cover letter. Don't copy/paste word-for-word, but do include personal success stories that relate to specific skills the job is asking for.

At the time of this interview, Alexander worked as a Data Scientist at Guidehouse. Now, Alexander works as a Senior Data Scientist for the US Government Accountability Office.

This interview is an excerpt of a longer conversation with alumni, who work and study data science.

Please tell us a little about yourself.

I graduated with an economics degree in 2018, taking some computer science classes along the way as an undergrad, since I was interested in broadening my quantitative skills.  After completing my undergraduate studies, I got my masters at the UVA Data Science Institute (DSI), which is now the School of Data Science.  I currently work as a consultant for Guidehouse and am responsible for leading several data analytics projects for a public sector client.  While at UVA, I was part of the Virginia Gentlemen and the Admissions Liaison for the DSI. 

What technical skills did you develop, and what skills can students develop, to go into your field?

In my opinion, the most important skill in data science is the ability to code.  I predominantly use Python in my day-to-day work.  Any students looking to become data scientists should try to take classes that give them a chance to develop programming skills; otherwise, they ought to try to develop these skills on their own.  If you are looking for self-paced learning, there are a number of online platforms that offer more structured coursework (e.g., Coursera), but you can supplement your learning with a combination of YouTube videos, data science blogs, etc.  Try to find what works best for you.  Even when looking for jobs that are less coding-intensive, understanding how to code something like a simple SQL query might give you an advantage in the job hunt.  For students looking to hone their coding abilities, Kaggle competitions are another great way to challenge yourself and grow your data science skill set.

What do you enjoy about your work?  What do you find challenging?  What did you find surprising?

Guidehouse has given me many chances to grow, not just in a technical sense.  Aside from my client work, I currently lead our AI and Automation Thought Leadership team, so I spend time learning and writing about state-of-the-art data science technologies and methodology.  I did not expect to be in a leadership position in a decently sized consulting firm right after school, but since Guidehouse is still a newer company, I have been afforded many opportunities that I might not have had elsewhere to help the firm grow.  On the challenging side, my client work often feels like a long game of telephone; I have to balance, keep track, and make sense of many stakeholders' interests, new information, and additional requirements, which frequently are indirectly relayed to me as I'm developing solutions.  It always feels good though, to make those ends meet, and to help people realize business value through high-impact data products, based on information that they've always had, but never closely examined; I enjoy this aspect of my job the most.

At the time of this interview, Troy worked on IBM's Business Development Sales Rotation. Since, he worked as an Account and Partner Executive at IBM, as a Fellow at Vencapital, as a Scout and Writer at Storied, and as an Analyst at Flourish Ventures. Now, Troy works as an Associate at Netcapital.

This interview is an excerpt of a longer conversation with alumni, who work in business development.

Please tell us about your career path.

I graduated from UVA in 2018 with a degree in Economics. During my time as an undergrad, I had many conversations with superiors, friends, family, and alumni about what I wanted to do. I eventually spoke with an alum who piqued my interest in sales, given its work-life balance with flexible work hours and remote culture, since the priority is that you hit your numbers. After graduation, I wanted to build my skill set, so I chose to join the Summit sales rotation program for IBM, where I currently work. So far, it’s been satisfying all the expectations I had coming out of school.

What relevance does an Economics major hold in your profession?

Studying Econ for me was about developing my understanding of human behavior and what drives the actions of individuals and businesses. When an employer like IBM looks for people who can hold an intelligent conversation and ask good questions, an Economics major is definitely among the strongest there is in those aspects.

What’s your daily life like at work, and what have you learned to be good at your day-to-day duties?

Every day is different for me. Sales jobs will be pretty regimented at the beginning, though it might depend on your particular manager. You will be asked from time to time to join meetings in addition to the usual duties you have, and you have to prioritize what you say “yes” to and what you have to decline or put off for tomorrow. A big part of the job is learning to optimize your schedule, and each Monday, I will budget time in for my own activities throughout the week to make sure I can be as productive as possible prior to agreeing to help with other projects and tasks.

At the time of this interview, Jamie worked as a Leveraged Finance Credit Research Analyst at Credit Suisse. Since, Jamie worked as a Syndicated Loan Sales Associate at Credit Suisse and now works as a Leveraged Finance Sales Associate at Jefferies.

Background:
Jamie became interested in sales and trading through some of the classes she took for her economics major at UVA. These classes included Theory of Financial Markets (ECON 4340) and Behavioral Finance (ECON 4370).  She interned for Credit Suisse’s global credit products group after her third year.  After graduation, she started working in credit research for CS, and now works in high-yield finance.

Questions:
Can you go over Sales/Trading and how it differs from investment banking?

“Sales and Trading is oriented towards the public, and it deals with the aftermath of companies raising equity and debt (which is what investment banking focuses on).  We deal with the secondary market, which is where the debt and equities freely trade.  We sell securities to buy-side investors.  I’ll go over three types: traders, sales groups, and sector strategy.  Traders take on the risk by actually buying and selling the securities; it is a very quantitative job, and traders usually specialize by sector, like energy or healthcare.  The sales group works under the trader; sales tries to convince the buy-side that the securities we sell are worthwhile.  I work in sector strategy; we do research to cover all of the bonds our traders trade.  We also build models for every company whose bonds we trade.  That way, we can help the traders and sales by giving them detailed data and news.”

How did your major translate to your career?

“There are lots of classes in the Econ department that help with understanding finance. Along with the two classes I mentioned in my background, Money and Banking (ECON 3030) and Corporate Finance (ECON 4350) helped me prepare really well for my internship.  Sales and trading isn’t rocket science, so a basic econ major can help you understand the main drivers behind the securities market.”

What do you recommend doing, outside of classes, to prepare yourself for a sales/trading job?

“It’s very important to be knowledgeable about the world and current affairs; it will help you in interviews and on the job.  Reading a lot is important; sooner you start, the better.  I read The Morning Brew along with The Wall Street Journal.  Also, it’s helpful to write down key information that’s updated everyday, like values of market indices; it will help you stay on top of stuff.”

What Excel formulas should you memorize?

“I actually didn’t have much of an Excel background while in college; I came into my job only knowing how to copy and paste.  I generally pull information from Bloomberg’s terminals for more complicated financial models.  V-lookup and SumIF are good simple statements to know; both of them help with sorting.”

What is your favorite/least favorite thing about your job?

“My favorite thing is the environment.  It’s competitive, but there’s a teamwork feel.  My coworkers have a lot of energy and are fun to be around.  My least favorite thing was that at the beginning, it was daunting to arrive at work so early, since I’m not a morning person.  But I got used to it, and I think most people can get used to it.”

If you changed your mind about your career, would it be easy to switch to a different area of finance from sales/trading?

“Sales and trading is a little difficult to transfer from.  Nonetheless, a lot of skills are transferrable between capital markets, sales and trading, and investment banking.  Research skills in particular are very versatile; if you know the fundamentals of credit analysis, it shows that you know how to value companies, and thus you can even move to the buy-side down the road.”

What are interviews for Sales and Trading like?

“At CS, they will personalize your interview to your resume.  If you don’t list finance experience on your resume, they won’t ask you about it; if you do, they will.  There are questions aimed at gauging work ethic and how you deal with pressure.  Most technical questions are geared towards current happenings in the market; an example would be ‘what have you read about the Fed recently?’”

Watch Michael’s interview with the ECO and the UVA Career Center as he discusses the role of economic research in banking and financial services.

Since the time of the interview, Mimi has been involved as a board member for EcoPost Ltd, an advisor and consultant of GREENMANTRA Technologies, an advisor for Savia Ventures, and a mentor for Cycle Momentum.

My career path: After finishing undergrad, I furthered my education in the Batten School while working as a research assistant at USAID. Graduating from Batten, I took on a consulting position at World Bank. From there I held many consulting and management positions in various industries (public health, policy, microfinance, product, education, etc.), and eventually decided to start my own company: Myanmar Recycles.

Becoming the founder and CEO of a successful, impactful company: In 2017, I opened a plastic recycling factory in Myanmar - a country I had no prior connection with - and have been working to recycle plastic film with a focus on post-consumer plastic waste. In 2020, Myanmar Recycles was selected as one of eight global companies to pilot the world's first plastics credit scheme. This pilot program allows corporations reliant on plastic packaging to buy credits generated by plastic recycling and collection companies. Behind this are leading carbon offset standard Verra (formerly VCS); non-profit BVRio founded by Pedro Moura Costa, perhaps a familiar name from his development of the first carbon offset verification standard and his global leadership on GHG emissions reduction; notable corporate companies, such as Tetra Pak and Nestle; and advisors including Conservation International, South Pole, and McKinsey.org.

Tip for current students:

• Seek out varied work experiences at different organizations, both at home and abroad. The reality of working in an emerging country is that there will be many challenges you never anticipated, but living abroad will build and strengthen your resourcefulness and expand your understanding of humanity’s interconnectedness, challenges, and collective strength.

Infomation taken from Batten's Alum in Action interview with Mimi.

At the time of of this interview, Alex worked as Senior Manager of Foundation Relations at American Enterprise Institute. Since, he worked as an Director of Corpate and Foundational Relations at American Enterprise Institute and now works as a Public Policy Manager at Amazon.

Why Econ? 
I started out as a politics major, and that’s how I got my interest in economics, as the two are closely linked, especially in policy. While being asked questions like, “How do we know if this policy is right or good? How do we know we are doing the right thing?” I realized that I wanted to learn more about how to answer those questions. Ken Elzinga’s micro and antitrust classes were both amazing Econ courses, and I particularly remember Lee Coppock’s Public Choice class as the perfect mix of economics and politics. I think if I could go back in time, I would have taken an accounting class too.

My career path: 
Before AEI, I did some campaign work for my local government and interned at a home-automation startup. During my fourth year, I worked at the Economics Career Office as the first-ever student staff member. I got my job offer from AEI in spring, and, yes, companies are still hiring in the spring and summer of your fourth year!

I started at AEI right after graduation in the summer of ’15 working on foundation relations. I really enjoy my work, which provides an opportunity to work directly with scholars and senior staff to plan and execute projects for the Institute.  

Attributes I look for in coworkers and team members:
Good attitude, good at giving constructive feedback and even better at taking criticism.  Hard workers who know how to get things done.

Advice for current students:
Don’t be afraid to look outside the box, AKA outside of the career paths that everyone else is doing. Particularly Econ students. As you apply, do your homework. People can tell when you’ve mass-applied. Be mindful about how you’re presenting yourself. You don’t fool people as well as you think! 

At the time of this interview, Sano worked as an Associate Technical Project Manager at Yext. Now, Sano works as a Senior Solutions Consultant at Smartsheet.

Why did you major in econ? / Has it served you well?
I majored in econ because of a great experience I had in my junior year of high school. My school offered AP Micro/Macro, and the teacher was incredibly enthusiastic, understanding, and knowledgeable. Aside from the teacher, I enjoyed learning how data points and logic are able to explain what may seem mundane and "normal" in everyday life. Knowing that numbers are able to tell stories was what drew me to the subject. At UVA, I dove right into the major and enjoyed the diverse courses offered - from development to international finance to auction theory! I believe the logical thinking and information synthesizing skills have served me well outside of academics.

Favorite econ courses/professors?
My favorite econ course is ECON 422 (International Finance) with Eric Van Wincoop. The professor is extremely knowledgeable and also helpful during office hours! The subject matter is incredibly interesting to me, as I had a concentration in International Economics - it was my first finance class, but it didn't feel boring at all. In fact, learning about the economics of relevant events like the shock of 2008 was eye-opening for me as a first year.

Some tips from your experience with the application –> job process?
My best advice is to leverage the amazing Career Center that UVA has. The huge career fairs as well as one-on-one counseling on career path/resume building/networking has helped me tremendously. In addition, for economics majors specifically, we have an amazing network of alumni as well as a dedicated Career Counselor, Jen Jones, with the ECO. From specific events catered towards econ majors to job/industry specific interview practice, Jen and the ECO have been an amazing resource for me (even past graduation)!

Something you want to tell current students?
I would tell students to enjoy their UVA days as a student, and not focus so much on the pressure of "getting a good internship/job." With a UVA education and the resources available, you are much more capable and employable than you may believe! Don't doubt your abilities, and don't let that thought hinder your performance in academics or ability to enjoy your college days.

At the time of this interview, Scott worked as Data Science Director at Electronic Arts Inc. After this, he served as Senior Director, Head of Mobile and Asia Analytics at Electronic Arts (EA). Since the interview, he has worked at NCSOFT as a VP of Data and Analytics.

Why I chose to enroll in Economics: 

I have always been a problem-solver and went into college trying to figure out what areas of focus would give me the greatest tools to amplify that aspect of myself, of which I believed Economics (and Mathematics) would aid me the most. Economics provides a purview into the world and how people make decisions that's fairly unique, using quantitative methods to measure the qualitative impact of decisions.

What do you do for work now?

I now work as a data science director at Electronic Arts, Inc. (EA). I lead EA’s Data Science team in the global analytics organization; our mission is to ensure that EA is leveraging data to best empower ourselves to fully understand each player within our ecosystem. The work we do ranges from player-facing data products, such as in-game recommendation engines and multiplayer matchmaking, to indirect support by developing tools and systems that expand the capabilities of other teams within the company.

We strive to promote a data-centric culture within EA as a whole, pushing marketing groups and game teams alike to think of how to use data to make better decisions.

Favorite course:

I loved Economics of Japan because it highlighted two things: First how different the cultures of our world can be, and secondly and perhaps most importantly, how similar the underlying mechanics and motivations of our actions really are. 

Advice: 

• Take risks and don't be afraid to try a lot of different things; learning how to fail fast is one of the best techniques I've ever learned.
• Try different jobs and branch out from your hobbies; you'd be surprised what comes in handy and how things you learn in two totally unrelated fields marry together well.
• When you make a decision, commit to it; nothing kills motivation and positive inertia like second-guessing yourself.

Why did you major in econ?

Ken Elzinga. Through my economics major, I gained a teacher and friend in Ken. Ken also officiated my wedding at St. Paul’s on the corner. My true intellectual love is math, which I also majored in.

In my current position as senior investment manager at Alibaba,

I frequently travel between China, Europe, and North America. My investment specialties include artificial intelligence, Big Data, personalized medicine, computer vision, autonomous driving, and other emerging technologies.

Having transitioned into new places many times, I have gradually realized my calling to build bridges across cultures. This is why I am excited to get up every morning to join others who recognize our common humanity to make the world a better place.

How did you find your way to your current position now?

I was born in Chengdu, China (home of pandas and spicy Sichuan food). I lived through the 1990s and early 2000s in China as a teenager where I witnessed how cultural waves of liberalism and liberty first re-entered China. At almost 16, our family immigrated to the U.S. (in Norfolk, VA). Since then, I studied / worked in Silicon Valley, New York, Boston and Virginia. I became in love with investing at UVA. But banking took me through a long detour away from investing. Two years ago, a recruiter reached out to me about the tech investing opportunity at Alibaba, I grabbed it.

Some advice for current students seeking internships and jobs?  

Depending on your risk preference and economic situation:

At the time of the production of this profile, Diane worked as the Environments Policy Manager at the Institute of Emerging Issues.

Why study economics?

Economics is one of the most important topics that explain everyday life.  It tells us why consumers and firms behave the way they do and how they relate to each other and to institutions such as the government. As two examples -- economics explains how firms react to different types of regulation and how the Federal Reserve’s monetary policies impact the interest rates consumers face when they go to finance the purchase of their house. Economics can be applied to all kinds of sectors such as healthcare, the environment and education. In nearly every issue or discussion people want to know who is impacted and how much something costs.  All of that requires an understanding of economics. More broadly, economics teaches analytical and problem solving skills that employers continually search for in their employees.

2. What course/professor was influential and why?

Dr. Ed Olsen was the most influential professor I had when I was at UVA.  I was part of the economics distinguished majors program and spent my fourth year doing a research paper on how announcements of money supply affect interest rates and exchange rates.  I really enjoyed the research aspect of the work and wanted to continue as a research assistant in some capacity after I graduated.  Dr. Olsen provided me the names and contacts of several organizations in Washington, D.C. that hire research assistants out of college and I was fortunate enough to work for one organization for two and a half years before I went to graduate school.

3. What made the economics department attractive to you/what made it special?  

The economics department was special for a number of reasons.  First, I really enjoyed the distinguished majors program and the small number of students that were part of that group.  We socialized together and studied together and many of us had similar career interests.  Second, I really had a chance to get to know my professors – Dr. Charlie Holt and Dr. Ed Olsen were two of them-- and I have even stayed in touch with them fifteen years later. Third, the department offered a variety of classes in everything from labor economics to public finance and all of these topics explored economics in a different way. There really was something available for anyone and now the department offers even more classes than when I attended UVA.

4. Your job title is Environments Policy Manager. In your own words, what is it that you do and how is your job related to your major?

I am the Environments Policy Manager at the Institute for Emerging Issues, a public policy organization housed at NC State University and founded by former Governor Jim Hunt.  In my job, I work collaboratively with individuals from all sectors and areas of North Carolina to build collective action in energy, infrastructure, transportation and the natural environment. I also teach U.S. Environmental Policy, Written Communication for Public Policy and other courses in the MPA program at NC State University.  Previously, I worked as a senior policy advisor for North Carolina’s environmental director and as a Presidential Management Fellow for the EPA.

The environmental and energy field is very divisive.  Economics plays an important part of the discussion of what the state of North Carolina should do to encourage everything from the development of renewable energy to the deployment of broadband in rural areas of the state.  The other factor that permeates most of the discussions I am part of is the role of the private and the public sector in solving energy and environmental issues. Depending on one’s viewpoint, there should either be a strong role for the government or the outcome should be left to market.  The conversations are interesting and economics inevitably has a big piece of the discussion.

5. What is an interesting project you’ve worked on?

One of the most interesting projects I worked on recently was developing a workshop for about one hundred stakeholders across North Carolina on the implications of the EPA’s Clean Power Plan (CPP) on North Carolina’s future energy footprint.  The CPP’s carbon dioxide standards reflect “the best system of emission reductions” and each state is obliged to develop an individual program for compliance.  This set of regulations serves as a national signal for the end of coal as the backbone of our nation’s energy needs. Meanwhile, the Plan also opens up enormous market opportunities for manufacturers of energy-efficient products and components of renewable energy systems. North Carolina’s manufacturers excel in both of these product sectors.

6. What advice do you have for students about their time in the department in relation to preparing for next steps?

When I was in my third and fourth year I knew I wanted to work for a while before going to graduate school but I didn’t know where or in what field.  I found the professors an amazing resource to talk with about the opportunities available to economics majors.  Dr. Olsen in particular was really helpful and provided me the names of over a dozen organizations that hired research assistants for two or three years.  I interviewed with several before deciding upon Resources for the Future and that job has influenced my entire career trajectory. 

7. What do you know now you wish you had known while you were majoring in economics at U.Va.?  

I wished I had talked with more students who took different career paths following graduation. Economics is a major that leads to a number of careers. I never really considered consulting or law school but that was in part because I never had exposure to students who worked in those fields.  I believe that the best way to find your path going forward is to get exposure to as many people who have different careers.  Each time you learn something you don’t want to do it is a clearer path to finding what you do want to do.

8. Who (or what) has been influential in your career and why?

My graduate degree in public policy from the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University was very instrumental toward my career path.  I had an interest in policy issues back in the early 1990s when I left UVA and worked in Washington, D.C. but graduate programs in public policy then were not nearly as prevalent as they are now.  I kind of backed into a public policy career after eliminating a Ph.D. in economics as one of my career options.  My boss at Resources for the Future where I worked as a research assistant had contacts at the Kennedy School of Government and suggested that I apply there for graduate school.

9. What is on the horizon for you/other career goals you have in mind?  

I have really enjoyed teaching public policy courses at NC State University and hope to continue teaching in the indefinite future.  Since I’ve been working about twenty years in public policy it is fun to teach public policy tools to the next generation of professionals.

10. Tell us a fun fact about you.

I really enjoy running and have already completed five half marathons throughout North Carolina.  I don’t think I’ll ever train for a full marathon but running is a great way to relieve stress and ruminate about things that require a lot of thinking.

At the time of this interview, Emily worked as a Research Associate Professor at Old Dominion University. Now, Emily works as the Director of Climate Resilient Coasts and Watersheds for the Virginia Environmental Defense Fund.

Life at UVA and since graduating:

Emily graduated from the University of Virginia in 2007 with degrees in Economics and History. After UVA, Emily received her doctorate in Law and Masters in Environmental Law and Policy at the Vermont Law School, where she graduated magna cum laude. She has worked in legal clinics and in environmental policy for over a decade.

She now works at Old Dominion University as a Research Assistant Professor. She coordinates the Commonwealth Center for Recurrent Flooding Resilience and works with faculty members to ensure their work is useful for policy makers and the public. She works with entrepreneurs and innovators to support new ideas for adapting to flooding.

In your own words, what is sustainability?

Effectively using resources to ensure a better result.

Emily’s advice for students:

• Read up on as much literature as you can on the topics that interest you professionally and personally
• Don’t write anything important on your phone–take pride in your written work
• Do your research effectively and thoroughly–click on references in papers
• Ask people to have coffee!

At the time of the interviw, Emily worked as a Consultant for BCG. Now, Emily works as a Project Leader for BCG.

1. Why did you choose to study economics? 

A month into my first semester, Professor Elzinga gave a lecture in ECON 201 that changed the course of my college trajectory. The topic—rational consumer behavior—was neither inspiring nor profound, but the lesson stuck. I found myself measuring the costs of a good in terms of its next best alternative, ignoring sunk costs when I made a decision, and seeing applications of economics everywhere. Drawn to this “economic way of thinking” during my first months of school, I attended my professors’ office hours, participated in behavioral experiments in the VEcon Lab, and even went water-skiing with Professor Elzinga. As I pursued economics further in subsequent semesters, I was struck by its systematic explanations for the world around me—everything from business strategies to Congressional voting procedures to income inequality. I was fascinated by these questions and the way that economics answered them, and there was no turning back! 

2. What courses/ professors have been particularly influential and why? 

This question is a tough one, because there have been so many! I'm grateful to Mr. Elzinga for his wise counsel, steadfast mentorship, and the way that he constantly challenges me. His ECON 201 class first drew me to the subject, and since then I've had the pleasure of learning from him in his Antitrust seminar and through an independent study on the intersection of economic thought and Christian theology. I'm grateful to Mr. Coppock for his encouragement and natural gift for relating to students. His Public Choice seminar was incredibly interesting and stimulating, and it remains by favorite class to date. I'm grateful to Mr. Holt for his patience, kindness, and willingness to invest in my academic potential. Learning from his expertise in experimental economics has been a true privilege. And the list goes on! I'm grateful to Mr. Olsen for guiding me through my first research project, to Mr. Burton for connecting me wonderful people and opportunities in the Department, to Ms. Turner for her amazing dedication to her students' flourishing, and to many others who have invested in me. 

3. What makes the economics department special? 

As my previous answer demonstrates, the faculty in the economics department have made all the difference to me. They create an atmosphere in which freedom of inquiry flourishes and opportunities abound. During my time in the department, I've particularly enjoyed the opportunity to conduct research. Last year, I completed an independent study in which I used Stata to estimate the efficiency gains of housing vouchers as opposed to public housing. Additionally, I work as a Research Assistant in the VEcon Lab, exploring ways that human behavior either aligns with or deviates from economic theory. In addition to these pursuits, I've also gained immense value from the opportunity to serve as a Teaching Assistant in introductory economics courses. Teaching is a great responsibility and privilege, and helping my students grasp the discipline’s most fundamental principles reminds me of why I fell in love with economics in the first place.

4. How did you spend your summer between third and fourth year? (This language has been changed. Former question asked “How did you spend last summer?” Or, we may mention in the heading that these responses were collected while you were a student and now you are an Associate with BCG.)

I had a fantastic summer interning for BCG in their DC office. My role as a Summer Associate involved collaborating with my case team to strategically simplify the organizational structure of a large tech firm. Day to day, I spent good deal of my time building models on Excel, creating Powerpoint decks for client presentations, and performing data analysis with my team. At the most basic level, my task was to solve problems, and both the content of the work and the atmosphere of the office made my job both stimulating and sustainable. I have no doubt that the experiences the Economics Department has provided me differentiated me as a job candidate, and Jen Jones and the ECO office were enormously valuable to me as I navigated the job recruitment process. Furthermore, once I began my internship, it became abundantly clear that the critical thinking that I learn through my economics coursework would help me succeed in the Associate role. I am looking forward to returning to BCG as a full-time Associate next year. 

5. What is the most interesting thing you've done in the Department?

Serving as one of the first undergraduate Teaching Assistant for introductory economics courses has been and continues to be an incredible privilege and learning opportunity. Standing in front of a classroom twice each week, I’ve learned to present economics concepts in creative ways. I’ve learned to establish credibility by coming prepared for class and by speaking with confidence. I’ve learned to establish approachability by adding lighthearted elements to my lessons and being transparent about any mistakes I make. Working one-on-one with my students, I’ve learned the joys of helping others succeed. I’ve learned to help my students work out practice problems themselves, rather than just listen to me explain them. I’ve learned to exhibit patience and encouragement in the face of my students’ frustration and disappointment, particularly after midterms. 

As a returning TA this year, my goal is been to use these lessons to both improve upon my teaching and to be a leader among new undergraduate TAs. I seek to be a role model by putting my students’ needs above my own. Whether it means putting extra effort into planning interactive lessons, sacrificing time to meet outside of my office hours, or simply demonstrating to my students how much I care about their success, my role as a Teaching Assistant continues to be my most meaningful University involvement. 

At the time of this interview, David was Principal at Trammel Crow Company. Now, David works as the President of European Operations at Trammell.

Alumni Spotlight: DAVID NEUMAN, Principal at Trammel Crow Company

Why econ? Economics is a great way to learn the driving forces behind business and the economy. It teaches you the fundamental building blocks for markets and the financial system and a logical way to analyze problems and situations. I graduated from UVA with my economics degree in 1999.

 I now work as the Principal at the Trammell Crow Company. My job is to create value developing commercial real estate projects in the MidAtlantic region for my company’s stakeholders- those are the employees, tenants, residents, municipalities and communities in which we develop projects. I spend much of my time analyzing the relationship of risk and reward for specific development projects and, therefore, spend significant time quantifying and qualifying inherent risks of a project. 

Which economics course was influential and why?
They were all influential! Perhaps the most interesting and memorable, which may be surprising to some, was American Economic History because it gave real examples of the causes of economics forces at motion and what happened in America when those forces dominated the economy (e.g., the Depression, inflation). Economic cycles are inevitable and learning from the past is the best way to prepare for future cycles.

Some advice for current students?  

• Don’t stress about formulas, small facts or trying to memorize things- focus on understanding the concepts. If you focus on the concepts and remember those concepts, that is how you change your way of thinking and become a smarter person. 
• When nearing graduation, it’s easy for students to fall into a trap of what they feel they “should do”, such as traditional fields like consulting or banking, however, if that student doesn’t enjoy that field, then how can one have a long, fruitful career doing it? Further, perhaps a student’s core strengths don’t favor that field. Therefore, finding a career path that’s enjoyable and values that student’s strengths is essential.
• I got C’s in both ECON 201 & 202! So, keep at it and keep positive!